SWANS frontman Michael Gira discusses band’s new album ‘The Beggar’, his creative processes, current tour and much more in new interview.

A new SWANS album is always an event. And the band’s new album ‘The Beggar’ (June 23, Young God Records) is no exception (click here for my review).

Written during the pandemic, the album features band mastermind Michael Gira and his current group of collaborators unleash their patented brand of unflinching atmospherics, stark dynamics and contemplative, confrontational lyrics.

I recently had a chance to correspond with Gira via email during his world tour, and he answered my questions in great detail, offering a look under the hood at his creative process.

While the singer has a reputation for being confrontational and difficult, his answers were thoughtful, illuminating and shows a great deal of gratitude for his fanbase.

In this interview, Gira discusses how he stayed creative during the pandemic, his current lineup, recording ‘The Beggar’, expectations on what fans will hear on his upcoming tour, future music and much more:

‘The Beggar’ (which is a fantastic album, by the way) was composed during the pandemic. I spoke to several musicians during that time, and some felt it really inspired them creatively, while others struggled due to feeling distressed/depressed. How did the pandemic affect your creative process, and did it cause you to approach the music differently this time around?

Thank you! …The main lesson the pandemic taught me was that time crawls and to wait, then to wait some more. After cancelling several tours it was time to write new songs again instead, and then to wait some more, once I’d written the songs for the new album.

But I approached the music the same as always, which is to sit at my desk with my acoustic guitar and make shapes and sounds with it, listening carefully with my ear down close to the wood and waiting for the words to flow, which in the end they always do, despite my fear of drying up.

SWANS has always had a fluid lineup, and for this album you have some SWANS alumni along with collaborators from Angels of Light, and Ben Frost, who I don’t think you’ve worked with before. When you were writing songs for ‘The Beggar’, did you already have these members in mind, and how do you normally go about assembling a lineup? How do you know who is right for the project?

Once I’ve written the songs I start thinking about the people I want to be in a room with for an extended period, hacking away at the music until it takes on a life of its own. It’s hard work of course, but it’s also psychically demanding.

The music doesn’t exist in a fully realized form without my friends and collaborators. I can perform my songs solo, with an acoustic guitar, and they’re fine and I believe they speak, but when the songs are pulled apart and stretched into an elastic, expanding shape with my fellow musicians, they lead us to another, better world.

So the choice of personnel has as much to do with who the people are, what their soul looks like up close, as much as what instrument they play or what their general musical skills are. It’s important that the music keeps surprising me along the way rather than filling in the blanks according to a template I’ve conceptualized before working with other people.

I do a lot of work beforehand thinking about the arrangements of the songs of course, but I’m happiest when the material becomes something else entirely due to the input of others and my interactions with them. Here’s how I describe the people I worked with on ‘The Beggar’:

Kristof Hahn – Lap steel, various guitars, vocals. Kristof first joined Swans in 1989 and was a principal contributor to Angels of Light, and a core Swans member 2010 – 2017. Kristof’s other musical ventures have included the Rock ‘n’ Roll Noir band Les Hommes Sauvages and Kool Kings (with Alex Chilton). He recently played guitar with Pere Ubu. When not making music Kristof translates books. He lives in Berlin, Germany.

Larry Mullins – Drums, vibes, orchestral percussion, Mellotron, various keyboards, backing vocals. Larry is a trained symphonic percussionist. He played through the ‘90s with Iggy Pop and later with The Stooges. He played with Swans in the late ‘90s and was a main contributor to Angels of Light. His current main job is playing drums with The Bad Seeds. Larry lives in Berlin, Germany.

Dana Schechter – Bass guitar, lap steel, keyboards, vocals, piano. Dana played bass in and was a core member of Angels of Light. She subsequently released music and toured as Bee and Flower. Her current band is the power-duo, Insect Ark. Dana is also an animator and designer in the film industry and currently lives in Berlin, Germany.

Christopher Pravdica – Bass guitar, sounds, keyboards, vocals. Chris played bass as a core Swans member in 2010 – 2017. Chris has played with the bands, The Gunga Din, Flux Information Sciences, Xiu Xiu, Yonatan Gat and Medicine Singers and has a project of his own called We Owe. Chris is a sound designer and lives in Brooklyn, NY.

Phil Puleo – Drums, percussion, vocals, piano, exotic wind instruments. Phil played drums with Swans in the late ‘90s and was a core member in Swans 2010 – 2017 and contributed to Angels of Light. Phil’s early NYC musical venture was Cop Shoot Cop and has since played with Human Impact, among others. Phil is an extremely talented illustrator and lives in Chicago, IL.

Ben Frost – Guitar, synthesizers, sound manipulations. In his own work, Ben’s adventurous sound-craftings are sometimes harrowing and sometimes delicate and quite musical. His numerous albums and his powerful live shows have afforded him much recognition. He is also an accomplished composer and arranger of music for film and television. Ben lives in Reykjavik, Iceland.

One of the most compelling songs on ‘The Beggar’ is ‘Michael Is Done’. Not only in the composition, which is one of the most majestic songs you’ve written, but the lyrics, which reference you in third person (unless it’s based on someone else). Lyrics like “Growing wings from his back, Michael sinks in his sack. When Michael is gone, some other will come. When the other has come, then Michael is done” evokes metamorphosis. Was this perhaps referencing how you dealt with the pandemic, or a different aspect of your life, and what made you decide to reference yourself in third person?

The song ‘Michael is Done’ was originally titled ‘Julie is Done’ and it didn’t make sense to me until I replaced the word Julie with Michael. To me, it is a series of mental knots, the place where language unravels, or the place where it’s impossible to tell the difference between what’s true and what isn’t, and the harder you concentrate the more thought itself dissolves… I am quite pleased with the final shape and musical arrangement the song ended up with, and thanks for noticing. I’m glad that after all these years I’ve finally realized that major chords can be a good thing!

‘Why Can’t I Have What I Want Any Time That I Want?’ Is another standout, and also one of the most brilliant song titles I’ve ever heard. It also feels like a particularly modern sentiment in an era where everyone craves instant gratification. Is that purely autobiographical, or is there a sociological aspect to it too?

Well that song began as a sort of hymn to the heroic infantilism of alcoholism, but I supposed it evolved into a lament for the unbridled Id rubbing against the inevitable strictures of the socialized world.

When I wrote the song I allowed myself to succumb to the dangerous (for me) remembered reveries of alcohol surging through my veins and being – that first electric rush.

That romanticized sensation, as I remember it, is similar to the oceanic ecstasy of a true spiritual experience, though it turns almost instantly negative and ends up over time suffocating the brain and self alive, until you’re left lying on the floor comatose with your tongue hanging out the side of your mouth like a beached sea mammal.

What SWANS does so well, ‘The Beggar’ in particular, is to create a near hypnotic state. Songs like ‘Paradise Is Mine’ or the title track really lull the listener into a trance. When you are performing those songs, is it your intention to create that effect, and do you find that performing it affects you in the same way?

The studio and live performance spaces are two entirely different entities. Through different means however I guess it’s fair to say that for me total immersion in sound and the desire to physically and spiritually dissolve in the music are a shared aspect of each approach. It’s an impossible goal.

The problem with recorded music is that once it’s finished it’s dead, finite, at least to me. For that reason I can’t really listen to any of the records I’ve made, recent or past. Since I’m familiar with every second of a record, having labored interminably to create it, it holds no further mystery.

So once the record is finished my next adventure is to take the songs and use them as a vehicle to make something unfamiliar and hopefully transforming out of them in a live context. But I’m glad you find the recorded music compelling in some way. I wish I could still have that experience with it myself!

One thing I appreciate about your work is how thematic your albums are, and how the listener is really rewarded by listening to it in its entirety, and ‘The Beggar’ is no exception. How much effort do you put into sequencing a record and does it frustrate you that the internet age has somewhat made the concept of listening to an album from start to finish less prevalent?

I’m not sure what the unifying lyrical theme would be but sonically, yes, a great deal of thought goes into sequencing and even remixing the songs so that they flow from one to another with dynamics and drama. I think of the albums as sonic cinema. I want to create a world where you can lose yourself for a while. Despite the fact that some songs get released as so-called singles before the release of the album, I’m not certain they work by themselves out of context.

You’re about to hit the road in support of the album. Have you already decided on a set-list, and how do you balance new songs versus your back catalogue, and satisfy your own artistic needs with what you feel your audience wants from you?

We’re on tour now, and the material we’re performing is from ‘The Beggar’ and the previous album, ‘Leaving Meaning‘ exclusively.

We’re also performing a new 20 minute piece that hasn’t yet been recorded. If I had enough new songs we probably wouldn’t even perform songs from the recent albums. But as it goes we’re stretching the songs out of shape and they bear little resemblance to what’s on record.

I suppose if someone sees us now at the beginning of a coming year of touring that the material will have morphed into something else entirely by the end and it will be a completely new experience. It’s what keeps the music alive and it’s what I live for. At its best the music plays us and not the reverse. It leads us somewhere we didn’t know we could go.

SWANS are a very unique band in many aspects, but one in particular is how you manage to remain so contemporary, or perhaps a better descriptor is timeless. Your fanbase seems to grow each album, rather than plateau like so many other veteran acts. Have you ever thought about why that is?

I certainly don’t try to be contemporary or relevant or anything like that. The main goal is to try to make something authentic, that deserves to live and somehow yields meaning and I’m extremely grateful that we have an audience that seems to glean something true in the recorded music and the live performances. It’s especially encouraging now, on tour, to see the amount of young people in the audience – a lot of 16 year olds, for gods sake, mixed in with other age groups. I don’t know why this is.

Despite being largely ignored by major media we seem to filter out to people that have a proclivity for what we do. It’s great to see.

Once the tour concludes, do you have any other projects in the works, and if it’s with SWANS, do you anticipate keeping your current lineup intact for your next album?

I don’t have a clear idea what’s next, to be honest. Trying my best to keep focused on the immediate task at hand and to make the best work possible right now…Thanks for your thoughtful questions and for taking the time to listen to the music!

Thanks to Michael for taking time out for this interview. You can pre-order ‘The Beggar’ via Amazon below: